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Talk:Rudolf Selnikov
Post-merger *I'm okay with merging the pages (I only have about six gray hairs in my beard so far), but the canonical name for this character is "Lord Selnikov". *Also, the the discussion below about whether someone should be considered a revenant belongs... probably in Category_talk:Sturmhalten commoners (and maybe the stuff there is important enough to go in the main article Category:Sturmhalten commoners; it's not really about Lord General Rudolf Selnikov, Commander of the Knights of Jove. *And it really still needs cleanup, e.g., The Works' section. *⚙Zarchne 23:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC) :I'll get to it eventually, unless someone else does first? --mnenyver On quitting while one is ahead Booo, hisss! -Acacia 07:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :Somehow, I think that the above is a reaction to this edit. Personally, I think Acacia doth protest do much... --Donovan Ravenhull 07:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC) :: Hehe! That was pretty bad. --mnenyver 07:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Sturmhalten Commoners The following is transfered from the other article. --Donovan Ravenhull 10:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC) It occurs to me that if Selnikov is a (presumably minor) spark, he is therefore not a revenant. Which makes him one of the few residents of Sturmhalten for which this is the case. Otherwise, we could just make Category:Characters from Sturmhalten a subcategory of Category:Revenants and finesse most of the "characters from Sturmhalten are presumed to be revenants whether they have displayed evidence of it or not" issue. Perhaps a new Category for "Sturmhalten commoners" is in order. ⚙Zarchne 18:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC) :Random thoughts in no particular order: :# It's safer to assume people aren't revenants -- sort of an "innocent until proven guilty". While we were told that the regular, unnamed populace of Sturmhalten were made into revenants, I don't think it follows that anyone who has an association with the place is therefore a revenant. (Klaus would take the opposite view, just to be safe, but then that's what makes him Klaus.) :# Just because we see Selnikov in Sturmhalten doesn't mean he's from there. :# We see Selnikov helping to create revenants. He's in on the whole plot. :# We don't have evidence one way or another that he's a spark. All we know is that he's nobility. :# Do we have enough Sturmhalten Commoners to warrant a whole category? :I know, none of this means he can't be a revenant. But then we get into the whole "prove _______ isn't a revenant". :--mnenyver 20:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC) "Logic. Why don't they teach logic at these schools?" - Prof. Kirke :I was not suggesting that Selnikov is a revenant, though, but the contrary: he is among a small number of residents of Sturmhalten who should be assumed wasp-free. The question is just, is a Category:Sturmhalten_commoners, subcategory of Category:Revenant (to which Selnikov would not belong; apologies for the stream-of-consciousness posting that placed my suggestion here) worthwhile as an alternative to addressing the question of whether everyone in Sturmhalten is a revenant? Replies in order: :# It's not just being told once that everyone in Sturmhalten is a revenant. Anevka orders everyone who was in the main level of the theater for "The Socket Wench of Prague" destroyed, for instance. (Klaus actually makes the assumption that they can be cured and orders nonlethal weaponry.) I don't recall Anevka, Tarvek, or Selnikov showing any thoughts that even a single member of the general population will be other than wasp-infected. I think Aaronev would have especially ensured that everyone who might serve him (i.e., that we would know the name of) would be. Admittedly, this is not proof that a given Sturmhalten commoner is revenant, especially if you narrow the definition of "revenant" to one who has received a Command&TM; and "imprinted" on the giver, but I think it could be considered strong circumstantial evidence worth noting. :# Lord and Lady Selnikov maintain a residence (with at least a cook, it seems, in the print version) in Sturmhalten. This is where Anevka takes the rescue party to acquire Kalikoff and Sturvin. :# Oh, yes, absolutely. He's one of the club that includes sparks such as Snarlantz. :# True as far as the canon is concerned. I was not arguing that he is, in the canon, necessarily a Spark. I was just noting that unlike Sturmhalten commoners, we have some positive reasons (including being labeled a Spark in The Works, as well as your points above) to think that he is not a revenant. :# Sturvin, Kalikoff, Nod, the messenger (and who, incidentally, is also not necessarily a revenant in the narrow sense of having imprinted on, say, Anevka) at the beginning of volume VI, Artacz, Veilchen, Anevka's bearers. Which list contains most of the current occupants of Category:Revenants, actually, who would be moved out of there. I say yes. :You may also argue that the "imprinting" theory is entirely in Anevka's clockwork brain. I'm inclined not to think so, i.e., she would be sufficiently an expert on the operation of the slaver wasp to know and does not have sufficient reason to lie about it. However, if false, it would only eliminate the (merely — if false — confusing) distinction between revenant and merely wasp-infected, which I'm in any case not arguing we should emphasize. Instead, its falsehood would not change the composition of Category:Sturmhalten commoners, therefore I think the "truth" of the category does not depend on it. (Admittedly, the utility may somewhat depend on it. As you know, I'm not one to require immediate or widely-appreciated utility to consider something worthwhile. Which reminds me, why am I here? Should I even be here?) :All (and only) known revenants, obviously, should be placed directly in Category:Revenants. Obviously characters "from" Sturmhalten (which would include Veilchen and Selnikov... characters we encounter there who are not "from" elsewhere) should be placed in Category:Characters from Sturmhalten. I just suggest that a "Category:Sturmhalten commoners", subcategory of Category:Revenants but with a note on the Category page that these people are widely assumed but not necessarily known to be wasp-infected, would satisfy the desire to note that these people are presumably revenants without actually proclaiming it. :⚙Zarchne 04:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC) I am not sure if I should be more pleased at seeing a reference to Digory or dismayed that his complaint is applied to me. ::Oops. I'm not sure how I read your first comment to be "Selnikov is a revenant". As for the issue of "who do we assume is a revenant?", my hunch is that named characters are not revenants unless we get evidence of it, but I have no strong feelings on how to handle that, category-wise. --mnenyver 20:36, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Lord and General Since the cast page now equates Lord Selnikov and General Selnikov, I've harmonized the page with this conclusion. Given there's also a controversy over whether or not he is a revenant, this may not be the only thing standing between this page and removal from 'dangerous experiment' status, but that may need to be reviewed. --Quadibloc 11:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC) :No one thinks he is a revenant. Mnen thought I thought he was a revenant, but that's not what I meant. I was just saying he's one of the few people from Sturmhalten who isn't. The discussion above belongs with Category:Sturmhalten commoners. :This page should be moved to "Lord Selnikov". :GEARZarchne 12:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC) On the building of crabby clanks Upon returning to Castle Wulfenbach with "Agatha's" body, DuPree tells Klaus "I saved you the sigil plate" from the clank, and upon looking at it, Klaus responds, "Yes, I see. One of Von Bode's little toys." Perhaps the speculation about his building the crab-clank in the Wastelands could be moved to a Mad page, with the elaboration that Selnikov was sending random (defective? old-model?) clanks out to rove the wastelands under other people's names for some reason. (To sow confusion/damage their reputations/set up greater dissatisfaction with the Baron over something that can easily be ended when the Storm King is in power?) -- PersephoneKore 14:29, November 5, 2009 (UTC) What's an implicit affair? "while Rudolf has a implicit affair": Clearly the "a" should be "an," but before I edit that, does "implicit" really mean to be "implied." or am I missing something about the intended meaning? Bkharvey (talk) 02:24, January 20, 2018 (UTC)